Author Topic: Race Tactics  (Read 2626 times)

Aurora Australis

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Race Tactics
« on: December 15, 2019, 01:32:53 PM »
This is my first completely new guide FAQ in CFF3, the others I’d done were done in CFF2 & transferred over.  As always, I’ll skip over things already covered elsewhere [such as in Help https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/ayudaeng.php]
Also Note: This will not tell you what tactics to use in specific individual races [don’t ask], and is only giving general race tactical theories that have appeared in the forum.

* Race Tactics *

First up a technicality:  This FAQ could possibly have been called “section tactics.” rather than “race tactics,” because we’re really talking about setting the effort for each section, and how it relates to sectional tactics.  And with that pedantic technicality out of the way, before we get to the actual topic, a little introduction for newer players.

* How Races Work *

Every race has two sets of calculations.  The main calculation is the general race value.  When you click on a race, you’ll see an approximation of this on the left side, where the primary attributes for a race is shown with 1 to 3 star ratings.  This value is constant throughout all sections, and is the majority factor on the performance of your cyclists.
The second calculation is the section “effort bonus.”  Each section, the effort your cyclist uses adds to the performance of your cyclist in that section.
The cyclist’s general race value & effort bonus are then added together to generate your cyclists performance rating for each section.

Note on TT
TT is different.  There’s no tactics or effort in TT races.  Instead, the overall race value counts exactly the same for each section, except for stamina, which counts for little at the start & progressively more after each section.  You can ignore everything beyond this point in the FAQ if your cyclists are doing a TT race.

* Effort: The Basics *

If you remember absolutely nothing else then remember this.  The benefit gained from effort in a section is completely & solely determined by that section’s primary attribute.  As such:
Blue Hills = Hills stat
Brown Mountain = Climb stat
Yellow Downhill = Downhill stat
Red Cobbles = Cobbles stat
Green Flat (sections 1 to 4) = Flat stat
Green Flat (section 5) = Sprint stat


Secondary stats don’t count in effort.  So if your cyclist has 0 hills skill, using 5 effort in a hills section will provide zero benefit.  It doesn’t matter if your cyclist’s stamina-aggression-etc is 99, only the primary attribute matters.   So, for a cobble-hill section (eg 4th & 5th sections of E3 Harelbeke), which are red, cobble attribute is the only thing that counts for effort benefit.

The second basic item worth noting:  You remember me saying above that there are two sets of calculations.  A slight modifier that’s useful for this topic.  There’s a tiny performance boost for how many effort a cyclist has left to use (see in-game help).  Do note that’s it’s referred to as a tiny bonus, and generally not worth losing time for.

Right, that’s it for the fundamental stuff, the rest of this FAQ is generalised material that’s an additional guide & not gospel for all circumstances.


* Additional Generalised Forum Threads Stuff *
Reminder note: I personally may not 100% agree with everything in all circumstances or races.  The following should be treated as generalised theory from forum knowledge only.

* 1: Baseline Setup Template *

It’s generally accepted that there’s a generalised tendency to push a little at the start, and at the end of races, and that cyclists can lose time here if they don’t use enough effort that they mightn’t otherwise.  As such the basic starting point setup template would go something like:
32223
41124
21234
31224
31134


* 2: Weak Cyclists or Domestiques *

You may however find that you have weak cyclists.  If you have weaker cyclists, your goal may be to keep up with the front pack as long as possible (particularly in tours if you have somebody going for overall result), as such, you might have tactics like:
31341
32340
42240
33420

This also applies to domestiques in support of a leader.

* 3: Strong Cyclists *

If your cyclist is strong, you could save energy until the last section, for instance:
31125
21135

Or if they’re especially strong, especially in flat races, you could be a dare-devil & not use 12 efforts at all.  For example:
21125
20125

Of course it does come with risks, particularly if they’re not as good as predicted (ie Aussie NT team leader season 5 race 3), but that’s for you to judge.

* 4: Terrain & Time Differences *

It’s been claimed in forums that various terrains create larger variances in times than others.  However, time variances in tour stages suggest this most likely only holds true to any meaningful degree for climbs (hill & cobble stages show a similar 1st to last cyclist time variance as flat sprint stages).
What’s true though is that time differences between cyclists of similar values are more likely to occur on various non-flat sections, kinda like you see in real life cycling.  Of course time gaps still occur on flat sections, especially if one manager uses high effort with a top cyclist when others use low/nil, it’s just that cyclists will tend to stay in larger groupings during flat stages/sections.

And for an illustrative explanation on time differences.  Suppose in a section various cyclists are calculated as being 0sec to 120sec slower than the fastest cyclist.
In a flat section, those cyclists 0 to 27 seconds slower may stay with the fastest cyclist at 0sec, those who’d be 28 to 55 secs slower end up being at 28sec, then 56sec, etc.
In a climb section, cyclists 0 to 7 seconds slower may stay with the fastest cyclist at 0sec, then those 8 to 15 secs slower end up being at 8sec, then 16sec, 24sec, etc.

The same applies to cobble or hill sections to varying degrees (note, the above explanation are illustrative examples only, actual time variations will differ).

* 5: Leader – Domestique – Weather Bonus *

A team leader gains from one domestique that stays with him (regardless of how many are with him), all domestiques loses performance regardless of whether they’re with leader or not, weather bonus are a bonus; how much of an affect they have has never been revealed.  All of these bonuses/penalties are applied to the cyclists’ general race value calculation.

* 6: Final Word *

The stage pics are only illustrative guides, to give an approximation guide of the stage values.  The actual calculation for each section is (“general race value” + leader getting support – domestique + weather + effort remaining) + (effort used * cyclist stat for section type) = performance value.


Anyway, that’s it from me today.  If you want to know how tactics work for a specific race, how much tactics should be set for your cyclists vs to stay with other teams cyclists, etc &/or etc, these are things you’ll need to experiment on yourself, because that’s not advice the FAQ can/will provide.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 02:56:26 PM by Aurora Australis »

Aurora Australis

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 01:36:55 PM »
Btw, before anybody asks, yes I've had Oska personally confirm that for a cobble-hill section (eg 4th & 5th sections of E3 Harelbeke), the cobble stat of the cyclist is the only attribute that matters for effort benefit.

RandyK

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2019, 01:16:14 PM »
Thanks for the helpful guide!
Do you have any idea on what the weight is between the "general race value" and the "cyclist stat for section type" is in your formula?

Assuming the last one is simply 1, I wonder how much heavier the GRV is to determine performance between riders.
If the situation is Leader (90 GRV, 60 flat) and Helper (60 GRV, 30 flat), on a flat section, it would imply that:
If GRV weight = 1: Leader on 0 effort (90) requires Helper on 1 effort (60+30=90) to keep up. Leader on 1 effort (90+60=150) requires Helper on 3 effort (60+3*30=150) to keep up.
If GRV weight = 2: Leader on 0 effort (180) requires Helper on 2 effort (120+2*30) to keep up. Leader on 1 effort (240) requires Helper on 4 effort (120 + 4*30 = 240)  to keep up.
And so on.

Aurora Australis

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2019, 07:00:01 PM »
Thanks for the helpful guide!
Do you have any idea on what the weight is between the "general race value" and the "cyclist stat for section type" is in your formula?
That's never been revealed, and my formula would merely be a guess.  If you want an estimate yourself, on a race where you're not going to score points (or not worried about points), if you have several cyclists on close to similar GV, try setting different efforts & seeing the results.
I'm sure some possibly has excel calculations for these things, but I believe a rough calculation in your head from such a test is generally good enough.

horace_vr

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 07:46:43 AM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.

Rico

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 08:49:01 AM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.

Only if that would be true, right?  ;)

horace_vr

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2020, 09:04:16 AM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.

Only if that would be true, right?  ;)
Well, I know I have read it somewhere, but right now I can't find it. It was worded something like "Teamwork is the ability to follow a team-mate's wheel" ? Am I the only one remembering this ? Either in the in-game help or forum faq's...?

horace_vr

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 09:11:18 AM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.

Only if that would be true, right?  ;)
Well, I know I have read it somewhere, but right now I can't find it. It was worded something like "Teamwork is the ability to follow a team-mate's wheel" ? Am I the only one remembering this ? Either in the in-game help or forum faq's...?

Actually here it is:
https://cyclingforfun.org/smf/index.php?topic=261.0
Scroll down to " *Teamwork Skill* " and voila!

"The cyclist skill teamwork isn't as it says.  In this game, teamwork is (more or less) the benefit a cyclists gains by drafting/slipstreaming other cyclists (friend or foe), and the increased pace he can ride as a result on flater terrain.
All other cyclist skills are as per word meaning."

Now you tell me if it's true or not...

Rico

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2020, 09:39:55 AM »
I think the only part that matters in the text is "the increased pace he can ride as a result on flater terrain".

Teamwork counts most on flat sections and a little bit in other sections (apart from time trials).

I don't think it has anything to do with an increased helper performance, but I can be wrong of course.

horace_vr

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2020, 10:03:08 AM »
I doubt AA would have written all that text without it being important. Yes, it is known that TW matters more in flat stages and less in mountains (and not at all in TT), but AA is also saying it has a special status in CFF, compared to other skills. He dedicated a special paragraph for it in he FAQ.

I am sure he will clarify this shortly.

Aurora Australis

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2020, 10:22:23 AM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.
That was a discussed question in CFF2, and the answer back then was no.  Teamwork was simply another stat, like flat, or aggression, etc; it's maybe a questionable word choice, perhaps it has a more accurate meaning in Spanish.

The helper bonus from the domestique is simply calculated on the domestique's base skills in comparison to the race value.

horace_vr

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Re: Race Tactics
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2020, 01:56:27 PM »
One quick comment: it should perhaps be mentioned that the helper bonus is also depending on the Leader's teamwork skill.
That was a discussed question in CFF2, and the answer back then was no.  Teamwork was simply another stat, like flat, or aggression, etc; it's maybe a questionable word choice, perhaps it has a more accurate meaning in Spanish.

The helper bonus from the domestique is simply calculated on the domestique's base skills in comparison to the race value.
Could you then change the post in the FAQ... ? :)