SMF - Just Installed!
FINAL RESULTS SEASON TR0PHIES 2023 ( the only rule= when there is an equal amount of victories, the person who won last will be ranked higher ) TOP 12 Divine Champions Trophy1 Vos 162 ophiuko 153Mitte 74 Patrick Kok 75 Kalarratas 56 Animatoca 37 Vlominck 28Aurora Australis 19 PieterJanVB 110Averatalm 111 MarnixStar 112 HtcHun 1 TOP 8 Chief of Classics Trophy1 Vos 222 ophiuko 193 Kalarratas 84Mitte 65 Vlominck 46 Patrick Kok 37 WinterIsComing 38 pizzaboys 1 TOP 26 Emperor of Stage Wins Trophy ( including prologue )1 Vos 832 ophiuko 643 Patrick Kok 45 4 Kalarratas 39 5Mitte 346 Vlominck 327 Animatoca 248 PieterJanVB 109 Combuijs 810 pizzaboys 811Aurora Australis 712 GaoYao 613 HtcHun 614 MarnixStar 415 ZG 416 WinterIsComing 417Averatalm 318 AJFactoryCycling 319 5o&Tapa 320 ValeronIdolo 321 Foeke 222 B.E-L 223 BrotasTeam 224 edu5 125 Sjiz 126 Teacher 1 TOP 12 Royal Sprint Trophy1 Vos 17 2 ophiuko 143 Patrick Kok 124Mitte 45 Kalarratas 46 Animatoca 37 HtcHun 28 pizzaboys 19 PieterJanVB 110 MarnixStar 111 GaoYao 112 Vlominck 1 TOP 14 King of the Mountains Trophy1 ophiuko 9 2 Kalarratas 93 Vos 84 Vlominck 65 Animatoca 56Mitte 47 Patrick Kok 48 PieterJanVB 39Aurora Australis 110 Sjiz 111 MarnixStar 112 pizzaboys 113 Combuijs 114 GaoYao 1 TOP 11 Prince of Youth Trophy1 ophiuko 22 2 Vos 113 Vlominck 84 Animatoca 75Mitte 66 Patrick Kok 6 7 Kalarratas 48Aurora Australis 19 PieterJanVB 110 ValeronIdolo 111 WinterIsComing 1
Many thanks Vos for making this game more interesting with your posts, and congratulations for your 4 trophies!
Quote from: ophiuko on September 19, 2023, 11:04:37 PMI don't think you can have a "the best TTer of all times" performance in a TT in the TdF, and then not using these TT skills for any other race (including TT WC), any other year. Either you have these skills or you don't and a topform doesn't push you from being a top10-top5 TTer to the best of all times. Maybe top a top3 or winning, but not winning with 3 min advantage over other top TTers. I didn't believe it when it happen, still don't believe and I don't think there is an explanation that will make it believe it. If Vingegaard shows up in a TT WC and wins it, then I'll start believing.It is true that Roglic and Vingegaard in theory should have been (as they were) much better than all their rivals. Kuss gained a great advantage in the stage where he was in the breakaway, but still after that he was the third best climber, better than all the other rivals that supposedly had prepared La Vuelta better and hadn't riden Giro and Tour. Anyway, I admit that Kuss's performance is believable. I agree that Jumbo Visma's tactics and technical aspects during the races are way better than other teams'.Didn't see your message till now.Now you're talking about something different, the TT performance of Vingegaard. Okay I can agree on that one, I was absolutaly amazed by that performance since I didn't expect that one. BUT after seeing an analyzing video from an Youtuber I could understand how it was possible, but I still can't believe the big time gaps, so on that single stage I agree with you. Some factors to take in consideration: it was more a climb TT than a flat TT, in this kind of TT's you always expect Vingegaard, Roglic, Pogacar and Evenepoel in front of the TT specialist (Cavanga in the top 10 was actually weirder to me than Vingegaard winning). Also Vingegaard is a more technical rider than people think, his bike handling skills are amazing. He won 1 sec in almost all corners in that TT, and it was a very technical TT, the anlayzing video showed this. Also the TT bike of Jumbo is better than the one from UAE, also all small factors (like a lot of bikes on the roof of the following car), testing etc. It's all better in the Jumbo team and in TT's that has the most influence. Also it was a TT in the 3th week which favors Vingegaard, Vingegaard seems to recover better than all other riders which makes him the most dangerous GC guy. In top form he is a top 10 TT rider and in the 3th week I think only Evenepoel, Ganna en Pogacar can challenge him in a TT, he proved this 2 years in a row now. So that he won is not that shocking to me (I even predicted him as stage winner in a TdF poule), but I agree the difference was insane and hard to believe.And do I think Vingegaard can become WC ITT champion? Yes absolutely, just like Roglic could win the Olympic TT. But not a flat one against Ganna/Evenepoel. A technical one with climbing in it he can win in peak form.And to see 3 guys on a podium in a GT is weird yes. But normally Remco would've been between them, and Pogacar wasn't there. The other riders are simply not on the level of Roglic and Vingegaard. Kuss was a surprise, escpecially in his 3th! grand tour, that he could climb with the best was known. But his Vuelta win was a big surprise for me. But yeah, I do think it's believable. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell, but for know I don't see reason to not trust that team.
I don't think you can have a "the best TTer of all times" performance in a TT in the TdF, and then not using these TT skills for any other race (including TT WC), any other year. Either you have these skills or you don't and a topform doesn't push you from being a top10-top5 TTer to the best of all times. Maybe top a top3 or winning, but not winning with 3 min advantage over other top TTers. I didn't believe it when it happen, still don't believe and I don't think there is an explanation that will make it believe it. If Vingegaard shows up in a TT WC and wins it, then I'll start believing.It is true that Roglic and Vingegaard in theory should have been (as they were) much better than all their rivals. Kuss gained a great advantage in the stage where he was in the breakaway, but still after that he was the third best climber, better than all the other rivals that supposedly had prepared La Vuelta better and hadn't riden Giro and Tour. Anyway, I admit that Kuss's performance is believable. I agree that Jumbo Visma's tactics and technical aspects during the races are way better than other teams'.
