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English Cff Forum => NT Teams => Topic started by: Vos on November 26, 2021, 03:17:56 PM

Title: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 26, 2021, 03:17:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dEXG5sR.jpg)

SEASON 21 PREVIEW :

Australia is at the moment 3-times-in-a-row world champion, at the goal this season is to make that 4-times-in-a-row.
It should be duable with this versatile season schedule with 3 races in Spain, 3 races in France, and the final race in Italy.
The individual world champion will be one of the 7 NT race victors ; the one with the most NT caps, because that is decisive.
Hopefully an Australian can win a NT race, so he might have a chance.

(https://i.imgur.com/VPaFSOV.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 26, 2021, 03:53:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

I will try to publish all youth lists in the first week of this season, but already now the u21 list to make Horace happy. :)
Hopefully next weekend there are enough 19yo's, so I can make the u20 list.
Aurora Australis recruited already a good 19yo TT talent. 8)
Everyone good luck with recruiting and scouting !

Australia u21 ( 38x 20yo's, 2x 19yo's )
(https://i.imgur.com/YQNzCD3.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on November 26, 2021, 04:21:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)
I will try to publish all youth lists in the first week of this season, but already now the u21 list to make Horace happy. :)
Thank you, I really appreciate :)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 27, 2021, 02:27:30 PM
RACE 1 :  rolling Galicia hills
(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/sacra.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8qeTuvr.jpeg)
19ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/lluvia.jpg)

Mombuey, Spain,
This race will be a rollercoaster in the northwest of Spain, just above Portugal, because there are almost no flat meters.
The expectations are high ; Australia is pretty good in the hills, ánd it has top contender James Bush as teamcaptain.

No space in this race for promising young hills specialists as semi-helpers, and no space for other kind of top talents as xp-cyclists.
Because Australia is going fullpower / fullstrenght in this first race of the season.
Michael Odom was very close to be selected, but I prefered to select the much more experienced Walkins and Fredickson.
Also all other good Australians were in the picture. At the moment there are 17 Australians with a golden hills icon ( incl. flat-hills ).

Australia NT selection :

James Bush ( 25 ) Antequera
Fergus Emerton ( 28 ) Flyvende_hjul
Nate Gailes ( 25 ) Cabrasverdes
Gerard Shields ( 32 ) QuintoYtapa
Christian Segond* ( 28 ) Matterhorn
Paddy Friend ( 24 ) $Tourmalet   ( debut )
Danny Gill ( 25 ) ICSluj
Zack Walkins ( 32 ) azerite
Herbie Fredickson ( 31 ) Turrones
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 29, 2021, 01:21:57 AM
Hmmm, the very big peletons in s1 ( 105 ) and s2 ( 85 ) were not in the favor of my strategy.
I was gambling on that the front groups would  be much smaller. Probably a waste of energy in s1 and/or s2, to almost all Australians.
Well, at least all 9 Australians were in the s2 front peleton.
The troubles started in s3 ( 45 in the front ), where 6 Australians dropped to the 2nd group on 0:20", including teamcaptain Bush.
I'm not satisfied about this race, but in the end a decent result of Bush ( thanks to help in all sections ) and a few points of a helper.
Results ;
4º  James Bush ( Antequera )
19º  Zack Walkins ( azerite )

Australia is 5º in the ranking.
And funny to see that the top 6 of previous season are now very close together on places 4º to 9º.
But who knows, every season is different, maybe the current top 3 ( Italy, Estonia, Switzerland ) will have a great season.

Next week we go to the Pyrenees ( France ) for a brutal mountain race with finish on top of the notorious Pla-d'Adet.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 29, 2021, 10:08:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

Almost no Australian specialists in the u23 DT of this season 21. Hopefully the next generations are better.

CFF u23 Dream Team =
cobble
3. (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg) Norman Pocock  ( 22, LOSRAYOSDELARRY )
climb
8. (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg) Garret Mitchum  ( 22, Manicomicos_Cycling_Team )
tours
4. (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg) Clive Emme  ( 22, ProdopingPong )
5. (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg) Os Blair  ( 22, Manicomicos_Cycling_Team )
9. (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg) Zack Dix  ( 22, Facha_Bartolo )


Australia u24 ( 165 cyclists ) :
(https://i.imgur.com/ddQYKbz.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 29, 2021, 05:49:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

Australia u22 ( 75 cyclists ) :
(https://i.imgur.com/QaTS5fX.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 29, 2021, 06:09:28 PM
 :) Very good news to Australia ( and to me, and to CFF ) :

I suspect that in previous season, Zatarra did not had any selections since the Tour de Suisse.
But I see now that his team has a Tour Down Under selection. Welcome back Zatarra !  8)
Great to see that your break did not had consequences ; your team finished as 28th with 3.960 points.
( That is fortunate :), because there were 1A seasons where this total amount of points was not good enough to stay in 1A. )
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Franky on November 30, 2021, 08:41:05 AM
hey! I'm back just for saying..."not so bad!! I have 2 kids in the DT!  ;D" I knew that Garret and Os were my best kids...so this is basically why I just focused on them, the rest are just meat  ;D.

I'm not competing a lot, just the basis for staying in 2nd division, and to train exp for this 2 kids... I will back to the game in any moment, I promise! I think is my first time a bit off in 13 years LOL
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on November 30, 2021, 12:13:04 PM
Already welcome back, Franky !  :)
And indeed, your 2 kids are for a big part defending the honor of Australia in the u23 DT.

But in previous season there were many more Australians in the u23 DT, for example time trial had already 7 Australians.
And no doubt your now 23yo Fraser Kitchens was among them, he is for sure not "just meat". ;)
In fact, with the right training ( for example now a.s.a.p. from 88 to 90 stamina ) he can be just as amazing as the 2x 24yo's Australians,
who have a top ranking in CFF  and who are the numbers 2 and 3 in climb TT.
Good luck with training your entire Australian team !


Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Zatarra on November 30, 2021, 07:16:27 PM
:) Very good news to Australia ( and to me, and to CFF ) :

I suspect that in previous season, Zatarra did not had any selections since the Tour de Suisse.
But I see now that his team has a Tour Down Under selection. Welcome back Zatarra !  8)
Great to see that your break did not had consequences ; your team finished as 28th with 3.960 points.
( That is fortunate :), because there were 1A seasons where this total amount of points was not good enough to stay in 1A. )

Thanks Vos. I indeed suffered from loss of interest. Pity, since I have some promising (Australian) tour riders. I will try to maintain my interest. It will be hard to stay in 1st division once again. There are only a handful of managers that were present in 1a for more seasons than I, so I try to keep up... Vos :).
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on November 30, 2021, 11:33:15 PM
:) Very good news to Australia ( and to me, and to CFF ) :

I suspect that in previous season, Zatarra did not had any selections since the Tour de Suisse.
But I see now that his team has a Tour Down Under selection. Welcome back Zatarra !  8)
Great to see that your break did not had consequences ; your team finished as 28th with 3.960 points.
( That is fortunate :), because there were 1A seasons where this total amount of points was not good enough to stay in 1A. )

Thanks Vos. I indeed suffered from loss of interest. Pity, since I have some promising (Australian) tour riders. I will try to maintain my interest. It will be hard to stay in 1st division once again. There are only a handful of managers that were present in 1a for more seasons than I, so I try to keep up... Vos :).
By my quick count

D1 Seasons
19 SPORTLIFE
18 galegospolabici
18 Thorboassonarvesen
17 Zatarra
17 KunTeam
16 FaltososDeChigre
16 CC_Porco_Jones

D1 Seasons in row
19* SPORTLIFE
17* galegospolabici
15* Aurora_Australis

Btw: I haven't really announced it yet this season, but I'm hunting for 19 yo Aussie flat-TTers, I'm just thinning my current cyclists out a bit to make room.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 01, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 04, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
RACE 2 :  French Pyrenees
(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/adettour.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/zoBSfon.jpeg)
19ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/viento1.jpg)(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/lluvia.jpg)

Lézat-sur-Lèze, France,
In previous season this mountain race was also on the NT schedule. The only difference is the weather, in s20 there was 3x wind.
Back then a very surprising, incredible, formidable 5º place of Norm Bush !
And if I read the forumpost of Aurora Australis ( s20 NT manager ) correctly, this amazing result is even achieved without a s4 helper.
According to me there are many rivals who are much and much better, so, I don't expect a top 10 result at all this season.
But who knows, maybe Norm Bush can surprise again, because again teamcaptain, and also this time his weather icon is active.
Realisticly I'm already happy if he can score points.
After all, he is the nr 194 in the CFF golden climb icon ranking, and even listed as flat-climber.

It is almost certain that only the Australian teamcaptain is good enough to score points in this specific race.
Despite the fact that Australia has some very good, young climbers now. But they like pure mountain races much more.
For example the best ranked pure climber, the 25yo Des Brown, has 4,1 race GV points less than teamcaptain Bush.
That is a lot, and the reason he is just the 8th selected cyclist according to my estimated race GV of this FMMMM race.

Fun to mention the position of the selected Australians in the CFF golden climb icon ranking.
Besides Norm Bush, everyone else of this selection is listed as pure climber.
The position is mentioned in brown before the name. And the selection is in order of my estimated race GV.

Australia NT selection :

194  Norm Bush* ( 29 ) HTCHungria
173  Dudley Iverson ( 30 ) LottoStelvio
212  Jason Furey ( 32 ) CajaRuralZamora
298  Martin Wilson ( 26 ) ZG
083  Henry Footman ( 25 ) BLOEMENAANDEMITTE
111  Ian Abolins ( 24 ) SPORTLIFE
067  Barret Ryan ( 24 ) RajenKujen
052  Des Brown ( 25 ) JackyTeam
098  Tyler Edgar ( 24 ) BLOEMENAANDEMITTE   ( debut )
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 04, 2021, 11:27:29 AM
Also good to mention that all promising u24 climb-talents were in the picture.

Including the 2x 23yo's, Barry Carpenter and Garret Woods, who both already have a golden climb icon. 8) 8)
But they are pure climbers and have a too low GV for this specific mountain race. And there is no space for xp-cyclists in this selection.

In the future the 22yo Garret Mitchum will be much more suited for this FMMMM race than the 2x 23yo's.
But also Mitchum is a pure climber, and his current flat-skill is way too low, to be a good future contender in this specific mountain race.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 05, 2021, 10:34:54 AM
Our first dreaded talent induced retirement of the season, with 19 yo Eddy Griffin having 3 to 0 talent to be shown the career-ending door carrying a bunch of Tafe course documents.  It does mean we have another spot open for an Aussie 19 yo TTer to join our ranks, either as a promoted or traded (purchased) cyclist.
We do also have our first 5 talent of the new group, with Maurice Hunter having the honour of being a quick learner on the bike.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 05, 2021, 11:20:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

Australia u20 ( 19 cyclists ) :
(https://i.imgur.com/hsjVvTJ.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 05, 2021, 10:39:27 PM
NT race 2 FMMMM 205,5km ( 1x wind ) ;
4º  Norm Bush ( HTCHungria )  8)
WOW, again a very surprising excellent climb-result, with big thanks to Dudley Iverson ( LottoStelvio ) who was the important s4 helper.

Australia is still 5º in the ranking, now with 420 points.
Italy is leading with 700 points, 2º Great Britain ( 600 ), 3º Norway ( 530 ) and 4º Switzerland ( 465 ).

Next week a hot and windy sprint race near Paris, France.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 09, 2021, 07:58:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VPw1qZw.jpg)
"Send your scout to Australia ; thanks !"  :-*

(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

Australia u20 ( 24 cyclists ) :
(https://i.imgur.com/MOEDNsH.png)


Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Zatarra on December 11, 2021, 09:06:49 AM
I've hit the Australian mother load. Future top hiller/cobhiller for the pure hills/cobhills (without flat).

Elton Leipheimer   Age : 19   Wage : 851
Stamina : 53   Sprint : 37   Climbing : 42
Flat : 8   Cobblestone : 61   Technique : 41
Downhill : 47   Hills : 62   Aggressiveness : 73
Time Trial : 16   Teamwork : 6   Experience : 0
Price : 2 500 000   Days left : 3   Stages raced : 0
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on December 12, 2021, 09:46:08 AM
Not much luck for me with cobb-hillers; and I think I will close the recruiting season; let's see how the current guys evolve, and we try again next season ;)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 12, 2021, 05:13:22 PM
RACE 3 :  Sprint in Amilly
(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/amilly.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/lFZGXYl.jpeg)
32ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/viento2.jpg)(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/sol.jpg)

Montfort L'Amaury, 50 km west of Paris, France,
In 2011 this same sprint race was won by Henderson ( NZL ), see picture. Two Australians came close, Goss ( 2º ) and Haussler ( 4º ).

Such a good result is not expected now, because Australia has a new, very young teamcaptain, who is of course not so experienced yet.
And also because this sprint race is tricky with 2x wind ; every tactic will be a gamble and the outcome is unpredictable.

About the selection ; 5 Australians were already selected almost a week ago.
They were easy and obvious choices, and this is including the 21yo sprint-toptalent Stamer.

Today I selected the final 4 cyclists :
# Frances, due to his weather icon*.
# Milne, due to his CFF ranking as golden flat-sprinter.
In contrast to the Australian ranking, where for example Malone is ranked much higher as 5th flat-sprinter, but he dropped to silver.
Milne has an extreme low xp, but 11 days ago he was sold to an 1A team where he is racing now ; best result is 5º stage 5 Paris-Nice.
# Middleton, due to his high CFF ranking as hills-sprinter and his bad luck that there are no NT hills-sprint races.
In my opinion Milne and Middleton deserve both a NT debut, ánd they can be used as extra helpers.
# Pocock, as xp-cyclist, and this promising cobblehills talent makes his debut for Australia too.

Australia NT selection :

Jasper Caan ( 24 ) SaulSalinasTeam
Jasper Blair ( 31 ) Manicomicos_Cycling_Team
Leroy Ablett* ( 28 ) Vicam
Ian Hamsten* ( 28 ) Plopsala
Wilt Frances* ( 31 ) Manicomicos_Cycling_Team
Reggie Milne ( 25 ) Ciclastur    ( debut )
Nate Middleton ( 26 ) MortoviaCycling    ( debut )
Horace Stamer* ( 21 ) Sacido
Norman Pocock ( 22 ) LOSRAYOSDELARRY    ( debut )
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 13, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
  Jasper Caan ( 24yo, SaulSalinasTeam )
Very good result !  :)
Caan even had 3 helpers in the s4 front group of just 24.
In retrospective, 2 helpers could have ride in free roles to (maybe) score a few extra points, now they finished just outside the points.
But then again, before this very windy race it was way too risky to sacrifice the 1 or 2 best helpers.
Caan needed the s4 helper to get a top result, no risk taking in this before the race.

Australia is still 5º in the season ranking, now with 600 points.
Italy is doing amazing ( 280 points in this race ) and still leading with 980 points.
Switzerland moved up 2 places, now the nr2º with 665 points.
The Netherlands moved up many places, now 3º with 620 points,  mainly thanks to the victory of top-favorite VanSwieten.
Great Britain is 4º, also with 600 points, just like Australia.
Norway ( 6º with 540 ) and Estonia ( 7º with 540 ) are very close to the top 5.

I expect that Australia takes the lead after the next NT race, because that is a flat time trial.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 14, 2021, 10:41:15 AM
A very low number of 19yo's so far this season.
But the good news is that there are some good talents among them,
ánd that there is still time to scout/recruit a few more excellent 19yo's. Good luck everyone ! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/2Ai1WGj.jpg)

Australia u20 ( 25 cyclists ) :
(https://i.imgur.com/O1KJ9dm.png)
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 14, 2021, 03:25:04 PM
RACE 4 :  TT Banyoles
(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/banyo.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/vPJwR4Q.jpg?1)
2ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/viento2.jpg)(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/nieve.jpg)

Banyoles, 95km north of Barcelona, Spain,
In previous season Australia did amazing ( 1.330 points ) in the Doha time trial of 40km.
This TT race is just 3km longer and has the same weather conditions.
The selection is the same as in previous season.

Australia NT selection :

Bud Mount ( 29 ) ChronoTony
Nobby Licuria ( 28 ) Aurora_Australis
Tod Henderson ( 28 ) Aurora_Australis
Kirk Clinton ( 28 ) Aurora_Australis
Christian Pocock* ( 28 ) Aurora_Australis
Walt Judd ( 29 ) Matterhorn
Kirk Workman** ( 33 ) Aurora_Australis
Jason Duffy ( 29 ) Shiro_Lions
Julian Frances ( 31 ) Bergtoppers
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 14, 2021, 06:50:53 PM
A very low number of 19yo's so far this season.
But the good news is that there are some good talents among them,
ánd that there is still time to scout/recruit a few more excellent 19yo's. Good luck everyone ! :
Most of mine appear to be firing low talent, so you may wish to omit most of them from that good news.  I'm still hoping for one of two late-season cyclists, although that will close in several days.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 18, 2021, 05:41:28 AM
I've finished trying for TTers this season, will try again next season.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Kekipi on December 19, 2021, 05:45:01 PM
In previous season Australia did amazing ( 1.330 points ) in the Doha time trial of 40km.
This TT race is just 3km longer and has the same weather conditions.
The selection is the same as in previous season.

Translation:  Australia is going to kick tail again, seize the team lead, and go on to win another overall title.

Good job and happy holidays!
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 20, 2021, 04:40:32 AM
In previous season Australia did amazing ( 1.330 points ) in the Doha time trial of 40km.
This TT race is just 3km longer and has the same weather conditions.
The selection is the same as in previous season.

Translation:  Australia is going to kick tail again, seize the team lead, and go on to win another overall title.
Good job and happy holidays!
And for at least another three seasons after that.  And just to put the fear factor in, particularly given the results of all nine Aussies in the top 13), I'll point out that my cyclists are at the low point of their training cycle, they'll start the peak training cycle next season & be at peak training cycle strength in season 23.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 20, 2021, 03:59:58 PM
Again an amazing amount of points in the time trial = 1.300 points !  8)
Just 30 points less as in previous season, where also the best Australian was 2º on 0:00", back then it was Henderson, and now Licuria.

1    Ian Mikkelson      32   0: 00"   300      Caracoles
2    Nobby Licuria      28   0: 00"   250      Aurora_Australis
3    Ruben Lutz      29   0: 00"   225      ChronoTony
4    Tijn Landzaat      29   0: 01"   200      ChronoTony
5    Tod Henderson      28   0: 02"   180      Aurora_Australis
6    Christian Pocock      28   0: 02"   160      Aurora_Australis
7    Bud Mount      29   0: 03"   150      ChronoTony
8    Julian Frances      31   0: 03"   140      Bergtoppers
9    Ernesto Jorge      27   0: 03"   130      PDM_cycling_team
10    Kirk Workman      33   0: 04"   120      Aurora_Australis
11    Jason Duffy      29   0: 05"   110      Shiro_Lions
12    Walt Judd      29   0: 06"   100      Matterhorn
13    Kirk Clinton      28   0: 07"   90      Aurora_Australis
14    Vladimir Pfister      29   0: 09"   80      ChronoTony
15    Salamon Jordáki      32   0: 09"   70      Catalonia_Team
16    Shalva Makarov      32   0: 09"   60      SPORTLIFE
17    Walter Coburn      29   0: 10"   40      ChronoTony
18    Nurettin Ballack      27   0: 12"   30      PDM_cycling_team
19    Alwin Neeskens      29   0: 12"   20      ChronoTony
20    Friso Vergouw      31   0: 12"   10      Fiestina

As expected, Australia takes the lead in the ranking with a big gap towards the other countries. TOP 5 =
1º (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/australia.jpg)   1.900  8)
2º (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/italia.jpg)     980
3º (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/inglaterra.jpg)     900
4º (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/holanda.jpg)     850
5º (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/suiza.jpg)     665

Next week a cold cobblehills race in Aragon, Spain.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on December 22, 2021, 08:40:50 PM
Speaking of the next race: How can it be that a 24 yo leads the Cobbled Hills ranking...? What skills does he have at 24 ?Talent 5, obviously, but... wth ? :D
Are we all the others racing for best-of-the-rest...? And will do so for the next 7 seasons...?
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 23, 2021, 10:13:10 AM
Ludovic Vetsch   ( SUI, 24, CobbleCrushers ) is 2nd behind the famous Phillip Spang ( DEN, 28, Codex ).

To comfort you, Horace, there are many different cobblehills races and therefore also different race GV's.
So, the CFF ranking is just a general indication and does not determine the favorites of a specific cobblehills race.
But no doubt, that they both are amazing.

And in the NT races ;
it is good that Vetsch and Spang do not have an Australian manager, otherwise for sure I would share your worries. ;)
Now it is just a matter of tactically outsmart Switzerland and Denmark, no worries mate ! :))
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on December 23, 2021, 10:14:17 AM
In Vos we trust  ;D
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 23, 2021, 10:24:34 AM
Hahaha, thanks, but I meant all Australian managers,
for example Aurora_Australis proved many times as NT manager that he is capable of tactically outsmart the rivals.
And we have more tactical wizzards Down Under, for example Ophiuko, Zatarra, Horace, Franky, &Tourmalet, and so on.  8)
And for sure in the NT races, because no problem to get feedback of experienced Australian NT managers like me and AA.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on December 23, 2021, 10:28:53 AM
My underlying question was actually how could a 24 yo have very similar skills with a 28-29-30...? I know training is slowed down after 23, but in all my training models you still get some skill increase starting with 24 yo. So how far is this guy going...?
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 23, 2021, 11:19:53 AM
So how far is this guy going...?
No limit, this guy is more than amazing.
A good indication is his 5th place as 23yo( ! ) in the NT cobblehills race of previous season, the same track as E3Harelbeke. Extreme impressive !

So, he is a real top cobblehills specialist,
and for example if the GV of the CFF ranking is for a pure cobblehills race, like the upcoming NT race C^C^C^C^C^ 150km,
it is not that Vetsch is high ranked because he has a relative low flat skill.
His NT result proves he is already a real top specialist ( like Spang ) for all classic cobblehills races, where flat for sure counts too.

And a smart CFF manager told me a long time ago that despite slow training,
 it is even possible for a specialist to train a total of almost 2 full GV points more ( that is a lot ! ) in the period from 24yo to 30yo.
Of course, high talent rating and perfect training are of influence to achieve this big increase.
edit =
Good point that you made AA.
Because it was about a flat-sprinter, that the smart manager refered to a long time ago.
A cobblehills cyclist needs to maintain(/try improve) more skills, so he will have much less increase from 24yo to 30yo than a flat-sprinter.

Vetsch must have looked already amazing on 31 March 2021, almost 9 months ago,
because back then he was sold for 44.444.444,- to a very experienced manager with a reputation of training toptalents perfectly.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 23, 2021, 11:23:26 AM
My underlying question was actually how could a 24 yo have very similar skills with a 28-29-30...? I know training is slowed down after 23, but in all my training models you still get some skill increase starting with 24 yo. So how far is this guy going...?
In part it depends on how many skills a skillset utilises.  For some like TT-flat, which utilises four skills it's absolutely true that 30-31 is the absolute peak (just under GV +2 or so on skillset at age 30-31 to age 24).  For those skillsets that utilise 6 skills, talent 4 will barely maintain them at ages 24-30, and talent 5 gives +0.135 of one skill if all skills are 90+, or if one skill is 80-89 then +0.6055 of one skill in a season (or +1.077 of one skill if two skills are 80-89 : note assuming same training time between all skills).  It means very little difference between 24-30, and day 1 start with top starting stats will trump any tiny difference.

Note, of course those calculations are assuming that all skills in skillset are equal, which they're not.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 23, 2021, 11:46:52 AM
Good point that you made AA.
Because it was about a flat-sprinter, that the smart manager refered to a long time ago.
A cobblehills cyclist needs to maintain(/try improve) more skills, so he will have much less increase from 24yo to 30yo than a flat-sprinter.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 26, 2021, 06:24:46 AM
RACE 5 :  Teruel
(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/teruel.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/1QcTZ8Z.jpeg)
8ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/nieve.jpg)

Teruel, 299km southwest of Barcelona, Spain,
At the moment Australia has 20 golden cobble-hills-specialists. :)

In this order ; Oliver Odom, Bob Janson and Sam Rooney were very close to be selected, according to my estimated GV (what could be wrong).
But my choices are the 9 cyclists below, and I'm still in doubt who to make the teamcaptain.
Because there is just 0,02 GV difference between Lucas ( active weather icon* ) and Huling ( much more experience ).
Also Thompson is very close in my estimated GV, just 0,18 below Lucas.

This seems to me a pretty strong selection, for a big part thanks to 5 cyclists of Australian managers ( 2x Zatarra and 3x TeaMetal ).
Merry Christmas everyone ! :-*

Australia NT selection :

Dylan Lucas* ( 26 ) Zatarra
Marc Huling ( 28 ) Turrones
Nick Thompson ( 27 ) TeaMetal
Liam Trautemberg ( 28 ) TeaMetal
Neil Spiker ( 25 ) ChessPower
Mannie Hines ( 25 ) Villavante
Marc Ashley ( 28 ) TeaMetal
Brooklyn Abolins ( 27 ) Elgrand
Ali Haber ( 26 ) Zatarra
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 26, 2021, 10:17:09 PM
7º  Dylan Lucas ( Zatarra )  0:10"  = teamcaptain
12º  Marc Huling ( Turrones )  0:25"  = free role
Unfortunately 3 helpers were in s4 on 0:07" behind the isolated Lucas, who was in the s4 front group of just 10 cyclists.
Only Switzerland had teammates in the s4 front group, and they scored the most points ( incl. victory of the 24yo Ludovic Vetsch ).

Australia is 3rd in the total points ranking of this race.
Switzerland moves up to the 2nd place in the season ranking, but no worries, they are 1.035 points behind Australia. 8)

Next week a hills-climb race in the French Alps.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on December 27, 2021, 01:53:13 AM
Hey, you got the teammates to stick with the leader for 2 more sections than I did last season.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on December 28, 2021, 01:50:13 PM
RACE 6 :  the Vaujany climb

(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/vaujany.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/dQg2sL3.jpeg)
26ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/viento1.jpg)

La Ravoire, southeast France,
This hillsclimb race can be a challenge, and the wind might make it even more tactically interesting.
Let's hope that the Australian teamcaptain can make it into the s4 front group, with at least one helper.
Then, at 6.4 kilometers before the finishline, the Vaujany climb will be decisive with an average of 6½ %.
But this climb is a perfect example of irregularity, so, the average does not tell much, it has steep parts of 12½ %.

Happy new year everyone ! :)

Australia NT selection :

Martin Hunter ( 33 ) Manicomicos_Cycling_Team
Kendall Palmer ( 31 ) IntellinetCyclingFF
Andy Friend* ( 29 ) Manicomicos_Cycling_Team
Emerson Janson ( 24 ) ICSluj
Walter Muller ( 25 ) Villavante
David Steele ( 27 ) Frier_Accounting    ( debut )
Elton Fevola* ( 26 ) Bikeos
Vinnie Butcher ( 24 ) IKIBASQUE    ( debut )
Callum Walkins ( 31 ) RealMurciaCycling
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on January 02, 2022, 10:14:29 PM
7º  Martin Hunter ( Manicomicos_Cycling_Team )
Not a successful race because the Australian teamcaptain was not in the s4 front group of 30 cyclists, but in the 2nd group on 0:20"
Despite this, a decent result with 150 points.
The "rival countries" did not score many points too, so, it seems that the world championship is already secured now. 8)

A little bit as expected ; not a real top result in this race, ánd the free role cyclists were not good enough to score a few extra points.
Too bad, because I hoped that this s21 could have been a record breaking season of total points.
But still 270 points behind record season 7 that had 2 flat time trials.

These 270 points seem way too much, because only the teamcaptain of next week is good enough to score points.
And that is Keith Hunter, who never won a NT race, and dropped a lot in the CFF ranking in the past 2 seasons.
In previous season he even finished as 16º, what is just 60 points.
So, it will be a mission impossible to break the record,
because ór Hunter has to win ( 300 points ), ór he has to finish 2º + a free role cyclist on place 18º ( 250 + 30 points ).

Next week the final NT race, a flat cobble race in central Italy.
All 6 Australian golden flat-cobble-specialists are already selected. The last 3 places will be for young talents.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on January 04, 2022, 01:55:45 PM
RACE 7 :  cobblestones in Frosinone

(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/etapas/giffoni.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ChPXDe1.jpeg)
6ºC (https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/nieve.jpg)(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/viento1.jpg)(https://www.cyclingforfun.org/cff/imagenes/lluvia.jpg)

Giffoni Valle Piana, 63km southeast of Naples, Italy,
Very bad weather for this victory parade to celebrate the world championship.
It will be the 4th WC title in a row ; Australia rules ! 8)

In this season just 2 young talents had each one NT selection ;
sprinter Horace Stamer ( 21, Sacido ), and a debut for cobblehills-specialist Norman Pocock ( 22, LOSRAYOSDELARRY ).
Just 2, because nowadays Australia is good in every kind of race, ánd because we are always competing for the world championship.
In this flat cobble race all 6 golden specialists are selected, so, it gives an opportunity to select 3 young talents.
For sure Stamer and Pocock were in the picture for another NT selection, but I decided to chose for other promising talents ;

I expect that climbers Garret Mitchum and Stu Vaughn will be much better than all current good ranked, young Australian pure climbers,
including the 23yo Garret Woods who will be Australia's highest ranked pure climber soon ( at the moment the nr 27 pure climb in CFF ).
But according to me Mitchum ( pure climb ) and Vaughn ( climb + 1 or more flat sections in it ) will be the future teamcaptains.
Also selected ; the promising 20yo hills specialist Chapman, who makes his debut for Australia.
Hopefully these 3 talents like to drink the champagne ( added with some unavoidable rainwater ) in this final NT race of season 21. :)

Australia NT selection :

Keith Hunter ( 31 ) RealMurciaCycling
Dave Taylor ( 27 ) Bikeos
Peter Boit* ( 31 ) Combuijs
Sean Jameson** ( 31 ) CC_Porco_Jones
Vince Whisman ( 30 ) Luka_Warriors
Donald Odom* ( 27 ) CajaRuralZamora
- - - - -
Garret Mitchum ( 22 ) Manicomicos_Cycling_Team
Stu Vaughn ( 21 ) JGMTeam
Sean Chapman ( 20 ) Quickstepbronx    ( debut )
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on January 09, 2022, 11:04:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dh2Ramn.png)
  Keith Hunter ( Australia, 31, RealMurciaCycling ) cheers of joy because of his first NT victory.

Unfortunately no individual world championship to Keith Hunter.
Because the Norwegian NT manager was way too smart
by giving NT climb race winner Mikalsen several extra selections this season, to secure the WC jersey.
Keith Hunter has just one NT race less than climb legend Mikalsen.
But then again, I never expected that Keith Hunter could win this NT race.


And on top of this amazing cobblestones victory ;

(https://i.imgur.com/o4Zu8VM.gif)

In a new total points record 8) and for the 4th time in a row ;
Australia = world champion !
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Aurora Australis on January 10, 2022, 11:35:22 AM
Great result, I notice that 3rd, 4th, 6th, etc had missed the group in section 1, so the tactics worked.
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: horace_vr on January 10, 2022, 07:46:17 PM
Congratulation on yet another amazing Season display!
Title: Re: Australia s21
Post by: Vos on January 11, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
Thanks x2  :)  :)

And of course, a big thanks to all CFF managers with Australian top cyclists who made this world championship possible. 8)